Denise DT on Birthing Her Creative Genius in a Record 2m+ Launch

Bianca: It’s so good to see you, Denise. I think for everybody, Denise has been like my North Star of you can chill and prosper and you don’t have to have success just from sacrificing yourself. And in those times when I’ve been in situations where my bachelor really beat up against the wall, when I’m like, oh, I feel like everything against me is saying, everything inside me saying, no, this is not the right way to do it. Hustle and burn out. And just like you’ve been that shining light and you go whisper, whisper, you don’t have to. You can chill and prosper. So much about what you stand for really helps guide me. And yes, it was really awesome when you reached out for help from sales for some sales consulting. So tell me, I’d love to know a little bit about what was going on for you that made you reach out for help.

Denise:

Yeah, well, so I started my business full time, 2010, I think. And for a long time it was just me and my assistant, who’s just a part time assistant. We got to pretty much a million dollars, just the two of us. And as the business grew, I had to bring in more people. And one of those people was my husband, Mark. And what’s amazing about that amazing let’s start with the good is that he’s so invested in the success of the company because everything that we do is for our family. But the hard thing around that is he’s a man, so he’s got masculine energy, but he’s got definitely a real mix of feminine energy, too. But it was just that. It’s just a different energy coming into that space. He had also come from a marketing background in sports, so he worked for Manchester United Football Club. And so I feel like when he came in, he came in with this real arrogance of just like, this is the way we should do it. And there was just so many clashes in that because it’s really hard to do, like, formal onboarding with your husband and then also have like, conversations about business and, you know, standards and voice and all of that kind of stuff with your husband. It’s so hard. I really value having people to bounce ideas off. And so for me, I can totally come up with most things in my business myself, but I don’t have always the spaciousness to do it. And if I create spaciousness with Mark to do it, I literally want to murder him by the end of it. And so I remember at the time too, really just liking all the stuff that you were talking about and you’ve just got such a strong, grounded energy. And so I thought for me, it’s the accountability of working with someone, paying someone for a container of time and paying someone to be like a sounding board, to be a reflection. And what’s really hard about that when you have a successful business is it’s not always easy to find someone who can hold space for that without bringing all of their money stuff into that relationship. And I work with people like me as a client at all levels of income, people who earn more than me, people who earn less than me. But I really value people who are in that conversation. No one’s perfect with money, but who don’t get blocked about big numbers, for example, and are okay throwing that kind of stuff around. But it’s really important to me as well to work with someone who understands women and money, right. Because it’s a completely different thing than, like, I’m generalizing here, but the way that men grow up around money is different, the way that women grew up about money. And I love working with someone who has done my work as well, but who doesn’t put me on a pedestal that is strong in their own work. And that’s you. You are strong in your own work.

Bianca: It’s so interesting that you say that, because I remember going to a Pilates class and I drive like a half an hour away to go to my Pilates instructor because she performed in the London Ballet Company and she did surf the sale. And it’s like going to posture school. And I remember I got there two weeks in a row and I actually spent the whole class crying because I was so relieved that there was this strong woman that didn’t need me to be a personal trainer, a mum, a leader, a boss, an entrepreneur, anything. She was just there to kick my bus and she could hold me. And that, I think, when you’re already a strong, successful leader, to have somebody else do that for you is such a visceral relief absolutely.

Denise:  Without also feeling the need to be coached through it. For someone just to be able to hold that space and go, yeah, that’s just the reality of what’s going on, without going, oh, no, remember, you’re the kickass woman. Yeah, I know that. So let’s put that aside and let’s look at this problem in a vulnerable way. And so that’s what I really appreciated in our time together, is to hold the space for me to voice things out loud, to be reflected back, but not have to explain the multiple layers that go into some of the decisions that I’m making my business. And there’s a real shorthand, I think, too, right, because you’re a fucking smart woman and you’re strong in your own stuff, but you’re not arrogant about it either.

Bianca:  Yeah. And I noticed, too, it’s great to notice how strong your boundaries are. I was like, Cool, we could do this, we could do that, we could do this. And you’re like, we could do all those things. Keeping it simple, and I’m keeping it streamlined. And I’m like, You’ve got so many opportunities. It must be one of those things where people get excited about the capacity and the potential for all the things you could do, and you holding such a strong spine for, like, yes, I could do all those things and I could make a lot of money with all those things, but I’m staying true to that core purpose. So that was really cool to watch you do that. And it was interesting, just the different dynamics that we brought up in the mapping sessions. I remember the joy one. It was like not feeling enough joy in the creative process was interfering within the dynamics between the team, between Mark, between the mission, and I think just really could see you were trying to still be all the pieces to all the parts of your business. And I do remember you said at one point, you’re like, joy. Do I got any more joy? What’s joy going to be at all important? And that was probably the biggest one that sort of stuck with me. And we went through this process of clearing it and clearing the business entity and all the emotional engine blocks, and then you came out with this incredibly creative and joyful launch that wasn’t your mainstay money bootcamp. Like, I’d love to hear about that sort of process because there was a lot of things there, but you’re really on that precipice of going, I really want to do this thing, I really want to do this, but I’m feeling the pull from us, from the team, but I want to follow that passion. Can you share a little bit about that?

Denise: Yeah. So this is the sacred money archetype course that I’m certified in with Kendall Summer Hawk. I always just want to acknowledge my mentors there. And we’d launched it a couple of times, and it had just never gone that well for us. It always been a really average result. We got a six figure launch, but I had expected it to be a multiple six figure launch just based on our numbers. And every time I kept on circling back to it, especially in our quarterly planning sessions with our kind of strategic coach, it would always be the thing that had to be Shelved. And I was so resentful about it because I’d be like, I really want to do this. And they’d be like, well, the business case is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, look at all these other rocks. And it just always was the thing that just go, Maybe next year. And I love what I do in money boot camp, I love my business, but it gets to a point where it’s like, well, everything’s running really well, right? And it’s that itchy feeling of, what can I do that’s new and exciting? And this is when people usually break their business completely. They’re just like, I’ll just ban it all down and start again. And I knew that I didn’t want.

Bianca: And that’s a block in itself right. a Money block itself!

Denise: Massive. It’s massive because it’s almost like, well, if I’m not really working hard for it and it’s not personally taking up all of my life force energy, well, then I can’t make money from it. And there gets to a point where it is easy and abundant to do my business. But I needed something creative to sink my teeth into. And I had this idea that I was talking to you about doing this really creative launch for Sacred Money archetypes, and I wanted to do it in a way that I hadn’t done before, where I dressed up as the archetype. I hired a set designer. I hired a fashion designer. Sorry, a fashion what do you call them? Person shopper. And I had a million creative ideas for it. I actually had a spreadsheet where I put down anytime I thought of an idea, and it was a thousand, literally over a thousand ideas on there. And the problem was, we were also doing all these other things as well that had to be done, you know, like filming and just obligations as a new book for my publisher and all of these things. And in the midst of that, I had to really make a stand for this project. And I think we spent $100,000 on the production of it. Yeah, video styling, props, all of the things, because I wanted it to be Netflix quality. And honestly, it just kept on. Like, I had to fight everyone for it. And it sounds ridiculous as the CEO of the company, but it wasn’t convenient. Yeah, it wasn’t a good time to do it. There was way too many other things going on. But I never like, I hadn’t felt so creative in such a long time. And to really almost bring out the perfectionism that I have naturally, a lot of the time in my business, and this is part of my kind of pure philosophy, 80% is good enough. It’s like, it’s not how I would have done it if I had all the time in the world, but it’s fine. And it will help people fine. Ship it. And for this project, it still wasn’t 100% because it still thinks that I would change for sure that I tried to make a stand for it. We just did get it. But it was like more like 95% there. And it felt like I was, I don’t know, like a director, a set designer, like a creative yeah, it was just a really, really creative project. And I felt it in a way that I hadn’t before. And I think this is some of the embodiment work that we were doing together, is for every archetype. And there’s eight of them doing the set, like, completely custom set with lots of little elements everywhere. Different chair, different clothing, different makeup, different hair, different accessories. I really felt the energy of that archetype. And as I was talking to the camera. I was just, like, just sending out these vibes of, like, I understand you. I love you so much. I am you. And then I spent probably I mean, it was supposed to do 2 hours per archetype, was 4 hours per archetype. As usual, I completely underestimated how long it would take for a week. And then I had to do another filming, too. But when I had to then take off the outfits and the set rearrange, I was like, mourning.

Bianca wow.

Denise  12:56 I was like, I’m so sad to leave you. I was like, oh, you’re my best friend. I love you so much. And then I would change into the next one, and I’d be like, who even was that?

Bianca Wow. Yeah.

Denise: I was like, I didn’t even know who you are anymore. And then I’d be like, now I’m this. And I really do feel like that was the catalyst of the work we did together, of embodying that, but also feeling like I am not my business. It’s okay for the business to have its own energy as well, and it’s okay to make a stand for a creative project and standards the standards that you want. And so it was really like a crazy, unhealthy experience in lots of ways, because the sheer volume of work meant that I was staying awake really late at night, up early in the morning. I was missing meal times with my family because I was like, no, sorry, mommy’s got to write these scripts. I’ve got 64 scripts to write. Sorry.

Bianca Because it was basically like, you write them all yourself?

Denise I write them every word myself. And in the pre launch content, you know, normally there’s, like, three or four videos, but that’s times eight. So there’s, like, 24, you know, opt in videos for the free workshop and then the course itself. This is one of the first times in a long time that I was writing the course content at the same time as the pre launch. Content at the same time as the launch.

Bianca Oh, my God.

Denise So we were doing the launch, and I was like, we’re just editing it right to the end, and then the launch is happening, and I’m still finishing off the course content. The videos were done, but having to put together all the handouts times eight. So it was like ten lessons times eight. You make a mistake, you have to go and fix it eight times. And so it was exhausting, but I knew that there was I just felt like it was a much bigger purpose to that. It was real. Proving to myself that I’m a creative genius. That’s the affirmation I was using, I’m a creative genius, and it’s not easy to do that.

Bianca I feel like a lot of the work that we did was also just helping you create the spaciousness in yourself within the entity that you already ran so that you could go hold this new energy. Because it’s like you’re pushing back on everywhere, left, right and center. And then also feeling like, is joy really all that important? But it’s actually part of you that was crying out for, like, give me my own joyful self expression. And it must have been really hard to dig your heels in, even through all of that late nights, early mornings, missing tea times, and being like, just better poke off. I don’t want anyone to be like, Told you so what did you feel like at the end for your results?

Denise  Well, I think also the work we did together was permission. Permission and validation of, no, this is a valid business idea and this is it can work. And you have permission. Like, you’re the fucking CEO. You’re allowed to do stuff. Instead of feeling like, guilty. Guilty that I’m taking resources away from the team, I’m creating distraction for the team. I’m also creating a messaging, a potential message, like mixed messages to my audience. That’s that whole thing of I always say to people, all roads lead to money boot camp. But then it’s like, oh, hang on, take this little detour, but really getting that permission that it’s okay to do that as well. And even though so many things went wrong, like our video guy, his son was in hospital, then he got covered. Then we just had to shift and change things. We had to find a video editor. Last minute, so many things got changed and we had to move the launch. And I remember at the time, both Mark and I, we would usually rather die than admit defeat in anything. I was just like, well, we’ll just suck it up. We’ll just work harder. And there was a real moment where that sovereign leadership stuff where I went, no one else was going to make this decision. I’m the one who has to say no. For the sake of everyone, we are pushing this launch and we’re just going to tell people we’re really sorry. We said it was going to be here. That’s on me, we’re moving it. And it wasn’t on me because of all of the other factors, but it was the first time I went, I’m not just going to suck it up because I know the quality won’t be what I want and I’m not willing to compromise on it. And it felt like a big moment because Mark wouldn’t have made that decision and the team wouldn’t have made that decision. And it really had to come from me for the sake of everybody, including myself, which is new, right? Because I’m like, I’ll just work hard. I’ll just bend time and space and magically make this happen.

Bianca Well, I remember that you first sort of was saying, hey, can you help me with some scripts and some sell by chat stuff and some video scripts? And I was like, yeah, we can do that. And you’re like, oh, I could do it by myself, but it’s more fun with somebody else, and then we end up coming. You probably were fairly surprised the method that I use because we actually straight up, you’re like, oh, actually, I need some help with the dynamics with Mark and how I’m running the company with Mark. And so we did a chakra line clear between your relationship, the dynamics, that you guys were almost in that place of like, I’m running faster, so then Mark’s like, okay, I’ve got to keep up. And then you’re like, well, he’s not keeping up, so I’m going to run faster. And he’s like, she’s getting too far ahead, so I’ve got to run faster. And it was this, like, kind of snowball of the dynamics where it just wasn’t really it wasn’t giving you the peak performance, it wasn’t giving you that calm nervous system. So it was really interesting to see how there was like a survival energy in you trying to get stuff done that allowed you to just break away and go, no, here I am doing what’s right for me and right for myself. And I guess that’s also to you stepping into your diagnosis as well. There was a real graduation in that period of time where can you share a little bit about that?

Denise: Yeah, about ADHD.

Bianca: Well, I guess it’s part of I feel like part of your sovereign leadership was about letting go of what other people’s prerogatives were for you and even what the business plan expected of you and being like, you know what? No, I can see clearly now.

DeniseWell, I think prediagnosis too. Most of my whole life, there is that restlessness and shiny object syndrome and being a bit flaky. Like, I’ve always been good at starting projects and not necessarily finishing them. And I really saw that as, like, a bit of a character flaw, if I’m honest. And so even going through that process of being diagnosed made me understand myself much better and realizing that just because I changed my mind or just because I am super creative, like, that is my superpower. And that’s that’s really a valid, you know, thing. And that’s when I started that affirmation to myself of, I’m a creative genius. I’m a creative genius. And that opened up so much, almost a bit too much at the start because I was like, too much creative genius. I was supposed to live in the world with too many ideas and be a mum and be a wife because you think of the creative geniuses of the world. Men are called creative geniuses, women are not. They often didn’t have child care and the indignities of trying to run a business and then someone like poops on your carpet animal or kid or both at the same time, and sleep deprivation and all of that kind of stuff. And so for me, really reclaiming that, that it’s okay to change your mind doesn’t make you a flake. And it’s okay to make a stand for things without blowing up your business, without, like, making it into, like, a manic, unhealthy kind of version of creativity, which I think I was afraid of, you know, because I was like, oh, my God. But if I unleashed this desire in me for creativity.

what’s that going to lead to? Am I just going to blow everything up? And I knew I didn’t want to do that, but I just felt really clear. I was like, I’m making a stand for this. This is the vision I have for it. It’s going to take work. And it took so much work work, but then it was done, and now I can just tweak it and things like that. And I’m super proud of it, I really am. I still want to make it better, but I’m never quite satisfied.

Bianca How do you feel? Because it feels like you really had to go through a journey, like a whole identity shift to make this come out the way that you want it to come out. I mean, you went through eight different identity shifts while going through a sovereign leadership identity shift whilst going through a diagnosis identity shift. Like, if at any point you wavered, it wouldn’t have gotten done.

Denise No, it absolutely wouldn’t have. It just required, like, head down, bum up. One thing I do regret, though, that’s still always a work in progress for me, is that because the team were working on other things, I pretty much did most of it myself, you know, like, I did all of the handouts myself. I got someone to help me with a few little things, but it was just like, I don’t have time to explain it. I don’t have time to explain what’s in my head. And that’s totally such a perfectionist, control freak kind of thing that sometimes is true. Sometimes it is just quicker to do it yourself.

Bianca But with what you did, though, and really infused all your intuition and brought your whole self and allowed yourself to shift in so many different ways, it’s kind of like birthing triplets, right?

Only you can do it, and then only you really are there to hold that magic of it. And from here on, after, you can have other people look after it, right? Other people can help you with those things, but you don’t have to be responsible for all of it. So were you happy with the results? Can you share a little bit about your results?

Denise 2 Yeah. Oh, gosh, I don’t even remember now because I feel like it was so long ago. It was our best launch for that program ever. It was a $1,000 price point, which I think we still could have. Probably upped it a little bit. I think it was I literally cannot remember, but it was an amazing, amazing launch.

I think it was like 2 million Australian. I think we got two. I literally can’t remember. I’m sorry, but it was so gratifying. But it was almost like the results for me I know it sounds strange, but it wasn’t important. I know I wanted to validate it and validate the work and the cost and all that, all of that kind of thing. And also, by the time I was still working on the creative if Walmart was doing the logistics of launching, and then as soon as the result happened, I was teaching and holding space. Well, I was still finishing off the lessons. I was still finishing off the lesson. So it was like, lessons one and two were done, and I’m like teaching and holding space and doing all those things, and then I’m still like, going, but lessons four and five and six still need the handouts done. And, I mean, I haven’t done that since my first year of launching something, right? There’s never been a time for a decade that I had been creating, launching, holding space, teaching, all at the same time. Oh, my gosh. It was crazy. It was crazy. And so everything that’s why I haven’t seen it. Everything went down. I was having dreams about letting down my friends. I was having dreams about my friends calling me and going, Where are you? We’re supposed to be at the theater together, and you’ve got the tickets. Like, I was having all these dreams about, like, I am such a bad friend. I’m such a bad parent.

I owed all these things to people, other little projects, and I was like, I’m such a bad client because everything fell to the wayside in service of this big creative birthing. And I felt so guilty about that. Like, I felt guilty doing the fourth trimester thing, right? But you have to surrender to that and be like, hey, I’ll just birth these babies, these three babies. Like, I don’t have time. I don’t have time and energy for you. And I also realized, too, that there were friends in my world who are totally cool with that, and they’d just be like, just checking in with you. You’re doing great, just sending you love. And then there would be people who were kind of like, oh, you’re kind of neglecting me. And I’m like, I’m birthing this project. And I think it really did just take me to that next level of making a stand for creativity and just being that sovereign leader.

And, I mean, luckily, I won’t have to do that again now, because next time I launch it, all that stuff done. That’ll be fun.

Yeah, it was a really cool project, and it was great working with you and getting into that great mindset of it and having the permission to make a stand for it outside of my team telling me, no, don’t do it now. Yeah, a couple of minutes.

Bianca: So any recommendations to anyone thinking about doing some sales consulting with me?

Denise: Here’s the thing, right? I don’t think working with you, it’s not like, cool, do this thing and then do this thing. Because I feel like we all know what we need to do, and as soon as we’re in alignment with that, then the next step becomes clear. And I think that’s the beauty of the work that you do. It’s just getting into that alignment. So then we don’t sabotage ourselves, and then we do know that next step, because you can Google sales process, right? You can read any sales book. It’s not freaking rocket science. But the nuances of the energy is so important for us because if we don’t believe it in ourselves, we’ll sabotage it. We’ll stop asking for the sale, we’ll turn off our clients unknowingly. So I think anyone considering working with you Bianca, it’s a real privilege to be able to have your brain and your energy in someone’s business.

Bianca: Thank you. I feel like it’s like when you’re drawing back an arrow, so imagine that you are getting your quiver ready of your arrow, and I’m there going, hey, fuck you. Tummy in. Hey, stand up. Believe that. See where the arrow is going to hit, and it’s your strength and your tenacity bringing it back. But we’re doing everything possible to make sure that every little muscle is switched on, everything with the gears and the cogs of your mind, and it’s like energetically creating a clean pathway so that you might but ultimately it’s going to hit where you want it to go. And there are all the things that you can’t do when you’re yourself, when.

Denise: You’re you no, you can’t. And I was explaining this to someone today. When you teach mindset work, or even if you’re teaching sales or whatever, it’s not the same as doing it yourself. Holding space for people is a completely different energy than having someone else hold space for you. And I’m redoing ballet lessons at the moment, right? And again, I can’t see those misalignments in myself. It’s a completely different experience being in the studio with someone going, no, when you go up, this foot is coming out over here, and everyone needs that support, everyone. And I think especially high performers, because if you don’t, I think the imposter syndrome starts to, like, take root inside you, right, because you’re not doing your own work and you have nobody to, like, vent to or you have nobody to see that you’re a normal human as well, and you’ve got your own stuff. And I think probably two years before, a year before we started working together, I did have massive anxiety because I was just holding them a space at the start of the pandemic, saying to people, everything’s fine, everything’s fine. There’s no turbulence, it’s all over, and no. One was doing that for me. And so I just, like, fell apart after a while because I was like, I’m the strong one, I’m the strong one, I’m the strong one, I’m the strong one. And you can be strong and still have support from someone else. That’s how we thrive.

Bianca: One of the pieces that I love from you is where you never actually put yourself as the guru. People don’t get results because of my work or my course. They get results because of their work, their effort, doing the work. And just that point where you’re like, hey, give them a tip. The permission of being a mum and being all these things, it’s like, hey, get off my tips. Don’t be so needy. I’m reclaiming my body, my energetic body, my business body. And I was like, yeah. So I’ve used that heaps.

Denise  I’m like, Get off my tits. And that’s hard. It is really hard. Hard sometimes. And I think getting that strengthening work of going, how strong is your messaging and where your clients are, all of that stuff is so helpful. Because one, I think sometimes we think, oh, but they need me. There’s that real ego thing. But I’m the only one who can give them that information. And I can see over the last year, too, it’s not like I felt distant from my clients, but I’m just kind of like, Well, I’ve created the container for them, and it’s really good. And old dip in and out. I separated my social media to interpersonal and business because I was getting to smothering energy. And then you attract people who it’s never enough for. They get a bit resentful of that. And I remember actually, it wasn’t near when it was working with you, where someone was like, messaging on the weekend in the group going, Why are you responding to me? And I’m like it’s the weekend. I don’t work for you. What are you doing? And I think that work together really helped me strengthen that, to be like, I wouldn’t be so rude and do that to someone else, so why would you do that to me? And that’s okay. It’s not being a bitch. It’s okay just to go, that’s the work. Like, do the work.

Bianca: That’s right. I’m remembering in your mapping, too, part of that is another shift of you realizing that your business baby was no longer in its infancy. So there’s also part of that motherhood journey where you’re like, Hang on, you can pack your lunch and go to school like all the big kids. So there were still parts where you were there, so helping everybody and in the comments and in the feedback. And I’m like, Babe, it’s showing up that you’re out of your center. When you’re doing these things, you’re in a place of over responsibility. It’s like, Let the kids grow up big time.

Denise: Big time. And that’s exhausting. And also, it’s not only exhausting, you feel like it’s never enough, no matter how much you give anyway. And that’s been a massive shift over the last year. Having more community managers in my group and just realizing it’s like, well, I don’t know everything either. Right. Go do the material. Be in that container that I’ve created for you. I don’t need to hold your hand through it because you’re a big kid. Yeah.

Bianca: I think it’s just really catching up after you’ve done so much work and recognizing just those little tiny degrees of shift. The nuances at the start, it’s like the leaning tower of Piza when you’re just a degree off, then you’re like, kilometers off down the road. And so as we’ve changed you back into alignment with who you are, who you’re meant to be here, and just really accessing your highest potential. Yeah, it’s really cool just to see where you’ve lined it all up and things that you just keep on creating.

Denise I think the other thing, too, is because we’re going to go traveling this year for about 14 weeks, and that’s a real mindset shift of going. I’ll still have my calls once a month, but it is okay to step away from the business like that, and it’s not going to die. And it has its own energy, and it’s okay to do things for me.

Bianca: From two times a month to one time a month.

Denise: It’s still twice a month, but it will be one day, like, one day a month. Well, for this year anyway, and it’s opening that conversation for next year. Do I want to do calls next year in my group? We’re not doing a January launch next year because it’s like Christmas, and then summer holidays here in Australia might be a good time to sell in America, but for us, it’s summer, and this year we still got to have a summer. But the specter of a January launch looms over us for the whole of December and January. And so it’s like, oh, cool. Well, next year we’ll do it in March maybe. So there’s just little shifts like that that absolutely have made a huge difference.

Bianca I just love the example that you set for us all, that you can have your cake and eat it too. You can create that life by design. Right. And it’s like, just even when the shit comes, hits a fan, it’s like, you don’t have to give up. You can choose when the time to pivot and choose yourself, and then also know that putting the pedal to the metal is also choosing yourself, too.

Denise: Yes. And that was a big lesson I learned this year, too, is I actually got a lot of criticism for showing visible effort in that launch. And it surprised me, actually, because I was like, wow, I can’t people see that I’m enjoying this and I’m choosing it. I don’t have to do this. I’m choosing this level of detail, and I think it’s the most amount of not hate mail, but just people expressing their concern of, like, denise is this really chill and prosper. And it was really like it was hard for me because I was like, I’m enjoying it so much, and yeah, I’m choosing to do it. But it surprised me.

Bianca: Yeah, it just reminds me of my first proper CrossFit workout back after having the triplets, and I was like, it feels so great to choose the effort to choose that I’ve gone this hard, as opposed to just feeling like a treadmill that’s always fed a bit too fast, dealing with everybody else. It’s, like, so empowering to choose to sprint than to feel like you’re just being pulled along.

Denise Yeah, but I think people were really projecting some of their stuff on me because I wasn’t saying no one would do eight launches in one. Like, it was so it was such a specific thing that I wasn’t saying, you have to do it like this. I’m saying, really know your audience. But it was also gratifying to see some other people who were like, oh, my God, I’m so inspired by this. The creativity is off the charts. It’s unbelievable. And also from an archetype point of view, right? It was like the romantics, for example, were just like, oh, it seems like such a weakness, but you wouldn’t do it like this because romantics wouldn’t you’re not designed to do it. I’m a ruler, and I felt like I was really in my ruler energy, which maybe I’d been a bit scared to unleash for a little bit because of that tendency to overwork. But also, I knew that it was a finite project. I’m like, I’m not going to do this forever, dude. And also, no one’s saying that you can just do nothing and make millions of dollars. You have to create something.

Bianca: It’s like saying that you’re only in your feminine if you don’t push. But what about when you’re pushing out a baby?

You have to bring the fierce muma bear energy. And that is actually quite a disempowered way to think of it, to realize. And I’m probably thinking that you would have triggered like, I remember people got triggered by you having a baby and can you please not show the baby? And then people would have been triggered by you down. You’re not allowed to be rich and skinny.

Denise: No. And also, I think people have a snapshot of who you are at a particular time. So if people started following me in the middle of babies, I was like, not wearing a bra. Like, you just don’t give it. And I look back at some of those and I’m like, good on you for showing up in your business, even though you clearly didn’t feel in yourself, you weren’t feeling yourself. But I still loved having that creative outlet, but I wasn’t exactly looking and feeling my best. But people were like, almost. But that’s who I thought you were kind of betraying me.

Bianca Yeah feeling betrayed, without realisinng, That pullback of the arrow.That’s such a concentrated thing of effort. And there’s so much potency in that when you release that, no wonder you just hit the ground running and sprinting because you’re in the flow zone. You are creating, like and I talk about women being mental elite athletes, and when they’re in business and you’re doing your parenting, you’re doing all the things and negating their actual capacity for this peak performance. So they’re actually being really disempowering to realize that all the chill and prosper work that you’ve done also never says that you’re not allowed to sprint when you want to sprint. Oh, absolutely.

Denise And even Mark was doing that too, because Mark was just kind of like it really spun him out, the quantity and quality of the work that I was putting out but also expected from the team. And it was very frustrating because I was like, I just want excellence. I want excellence. I’m not compromising. And it was hard for him to feel like he could meet that standard that I was really demanding from it. And yeah, it was intimidating, I think, for him, because he was like. sometimes he was just like, I can’t think that way. Like you are. And I’m like, I don’t expect you to, but I don’t want you to also then get in my way.

Bianca It feels like, how many do you feel a bit useless in the delivery room? And they’re like, what do you need me for? And you’re like, Nothing but everything.

Denise Yeah, I need nothing. And I want you to read my mind because I don’t have time to tell you the level of excellence that I want. But I was sending things back. I’m like, no, not good enough. No, not good enough. No, not good enough. And it was just like, but it can’t be done. And I was like, It has like, yeah, it fucking does. Um and so that was that was hard. And also because I knew embodied the archetype so well, it’s hard to find, you know, like a video editor to go, why would you use that piece of Broll? That’s clearly not Maverick, broll. Then how are they supposed to do you know, when I was trying to write out the brief of one of them to understand, when you’re working on the Maverick one, the edits have to be a little bit faster. Those little subtle things, like, the music has to be a bit faster. When it’s the nurturer, everything has to slow down. And, like, the broll has to match that energy. And it was really hard to communicate that level of extraordinary detail because they didn’t know and they couldn’t embody that. They couldn’t feel the energy of that.

Bianca So what do you think has Mark? Maybe what is he happy? Is he happiness over or what did he really take from it? You know.

Denise I do think he was in awe of it. For sure, he was in awe of it. It also gave us, I think, a deeper understanding of that work together. And he was he was a really great help on the course, actually, because he’s certified in the Method as well. Yeah. So he did two coaching calls for the course. Yeah. And I was like, I didn’t like it. People were like, oh, Mark’s call so good. And I was like.

Bianca  Come out with my brother. My brother used to take my PG classes and then I was like, Chopped liver. I’m like, what’s the point having a business someone can just swoop on in?

Denise Totally. But that was really great. Him, I really saw too, how much because he has celebrity energy in him, how much that is suppressed. And he doesn’t get that in our company. And so that’s going to shift things as well because he does need to have more stage time and praise and all that kind of stuff, too. So

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I think that’s like a two, three year conversation for us now of going, where is that where is that going to lead to?

Bianca I think I’m just so fascinated to see how your work is embodied in your work. Like your money bootcamp work is helping your money bootcamp business. Your sacred money archetype business is helping the money bootcamp, which is helping the sacred money architect, which is also helping your personal life. It’s like when you keep on having that path of alignment and really staying strong in your integrity. That’s what I think. It just the better it gets, the better it gets. But it has no option but to evolve. So, yeah, it’ll be a completely different conversation in two years time.

Denise Definitely. I mean, what Mark is working on now is turning that on to Evergreen because I think it would be an amazing Evergreen program. So he’s kind of working behind the scenes on that, which will be great for him because it will be very it’s a very mechanical thing, Evergreen. Right. It’s like, how many people do you get to see an ad? How many people do you get to do the thing? And I think it will give him some, like a project that’s just his that he can win at instead of feeling like his creative input is not good enough.

Bianca And you’ve set it up that way. You’ve really set it up because you’ve made no room for any sacrifice of that integrity and everything so on point. Yeah, you can see how he can now lead into his genius. What a win.

Denise Yes, exactly. I know, exactly. But now I have to run because I’m going to ballet and do and see some new houses and all the different types of stuff. Absolutely. But, yeah, it’s been fabulous talking to you and yeah, I love your work and mutual appreciation society for us too.

I really highly recommend anyone? Oh, yeah, definitely. Yes. It’s such powerful work, right? And you know what else I really love about working with you, too? Your graphs and your charts. I so appreciate that. For someone that’s really hard for me to create things like that. And it was so just beautiful and thorough and deep and so easy for me to see that stuff. And so I just wanted to acknowledge that because is that it’s like a real level of detail and depth and mastery that I think a lot of people don’t do. It’s very cool.

Bianca Thank you. I’m infatuated with my own work, so I appreciate that.

Denise Good. All right, lovely. I’ll talk to you soon online. Bye.